Luke Boswell (Nov 19 2023 at 00:49): Luke Boswell (Nov 19 2023 at 00:49):Can anyone think of a reason why Stdout.write would flush but Stdout.line doesn't?
#[no_mangle]
pub extern "C" fn roc_fx_stdoutLine(line: &RocStr) {
let string = line.as_str();
println!("{}", string);
}
#[no_mangle]
pub extern "C" fn roc_fx_stdoutWrite(text: &RocStr) {
let string = text.as_str();
print!("{}", string);
std::io::stdout().flush().unwrap();
}
Cause somebody needed it to flush for a clic game or something
Brendan Hansknecht (Nov 19 2023 at 01:21):At least, I think that is why
Brendan Hansknecht (Nov 19 2023 at 01:21):Probably should add a separate flush effect
Luke Boswell (Nov 19 2023 at 01:26):I can do that, just add a separate flush Effect. Would it be acceptable for it to flush stdout and stderr with the same or better to have two separate ones?
Luke Boswell (Nov 19 2023 at 01:26):Like Stdout.flush and Stderr.flush
Luke Boswell (Nov 19 2023 at 01:31):I guess it should handle the errors too, like if not all bytes could be written due to I/O errors or EOF being reached. So more like Stdout.flush : Task {} [IOError, EOF] or something
Brendan Hansknecht (Nov 19 2023 at 01:54):Yeah, should be separate.
Brendan Hansknecht (Nov 19 2023 at 01:55):Also, technically even write and line should also have error returns, but I'm not sure what our decision around that for basic CLI was. I think we were ignoring some of those kinds of errors for simplicity of the platform, but I guess it is up to us overall to decide.
Brendan Hansknecht (Nov 19 2023 at 01:55):I think for most simple platforms, people just care about std in returning errors so they can recognize eof.
Luke Boswell (Nov 19 2023 at 01:55):Currently implementing error handling for flush, would be easy to add RN if we are happy with that API change
Richard Feldman (Nov 19 2023 at 02:35):Brendan Hansknecht said:
Also, technically even write and line should also have error returns, but I'm not sure what our decision around that for basic CLI was. I think we were ignoring some of those kinds of errors for simplicity of the platform, but I guess it is up to us overall to decide.
yeah I think if you want to write with error handling, that should be the unusual case
Richard Feldman (Nov 19 2023 at 02:35):it should be supported, but it shouldn't be the default because that's not what people want 99% of the time :big_smile:
Luke Boswell (Nov 19 2023 at 02:36):Having played with this a bit I think it makes sense. My logic is;
Task.attempt instead of Task.await, so we can always just ignore the result if we don't care about it. For example;# Log request date, method and url
date <- Utc.now |> Task.map Utc.toIso8601Str |> Task.await
_ <- Stdout.line "\(date) \(Http.methodToStr req.method) \(req.url)" |> Task.attempt
_ <- Stdout.flush |> Task.attempt
I'm pretty sure it's normal stdout behavior to automatically flush when it encounters a newline: https://stackoverflow.com/a/65385249
Luke Boswell (Nov 19 2023 at 02:58):I don't think Stdin.line or Stdin.bytes make sense for basic-webserver context so I am removing these
Luke Boswell (Nov 19 2023 at 03:16):Any idea why this generated glue assertion might be incorrect? Is this an easy fix?
Screenshot-2023-11-19-at-14.16.02.png
Luke Boswell (Nov 19 2023 at 03:16):My current workaround it to comment out this line for each architecture.
Folkert de Vries (Nov 19 2023 at 03:17):difference between platforms maybe (I notice you are on aarch)
Luke Boswell (Nov 19 2023 at 03:18):That was in the platform/src/glue_manual/src/aarch64.rs file
Luke Boswell (Nov 19 2023 at 03:18):I'm working on this https://github.com/roc-lang/basic-webserver/pull/8 PR
Richard Feldman (Nov 19 2023 at 03:45):Luke Boswell said:
I don't think
Stdin.lineorStdin.bytesmake sense for basic-webserver context so I am removing these
I don't think Stdin makes sense for basic-webserver in general :big_smile:
Agus Zubiaga (Nov 19 2023 at 05:04):Maybe you want to pipe in something to serve? Seems unusual though
Luke Boswell (Nov 19 2023 at 05:23):I'm currently coming up against this which is causing me troubles making a RocDict
impl<K: Hash, V> RocDict<K, V> {
unsafe fn insert_unchecked(&mut self, _key: K, _val: V) {
todo!();
}
}
I'm going to temporarily change the API for Env.dict : Task (Dict Str Str) * to Env.list: Task (List (Str, Str)) * as a workaround as I have been unable to make a RocDict from rust
Brendan Hansknecht (Nov 19 2023 at 06:49):Did we ever implement RocDict in rust?
Aside, Dict may be one of the most painful pieces for platforms/glue to implement. Especially since they have to depend on a ton of implementation details (like the hashing function among others)
timotree (Nov 19 2023 at 14:42):Luke Boswell said:
Can anyone think of a reason why
Stdout.writewould flush butStdout.linedoesn't?#[no_mangle] pub extern "C" fn roc_fx_stdoutLine(line: &RocStr) { let string = line.as_str(); println!("{}", string); } #[no_mangle] pub extern "C" fn roc_fx_stdoutWrite(text: &RocStr) { let string = text.as_str(); print!("{}", string); std::io::stdout().flush().unwrap(); }
Since stdout is line-buffered by default, doesn't println! flush automatically?
Luke Boswell (Nov 24 2023 at 20:26):I think https://github.com/roc-lang/basic-cli/releases/tag/0.6.1 somehow regressed, with calls to Http now failing with 301 for some reason... I'm just investigating now
Luke Boswell (Nov 24 2023 at 20:28):I'm wondering if we need to regenerate glue, I do have a PR for that but it hasn't passed CI yet.
Luke Boswell (Nov 24 2023 at 20:31):$ echo "http://roc-lang.org" | roc run examples/http-get.roc
🔨 Rebuilding platform...
Enter a URL to fetch. It must contain a scheme like "http://" or "https://".
Request failed with status 301
Building from source it works just fine for me
Brendan Hansknecht (Nov 24 2023 at 20:36):301 is expected for http://roc-lang.org it is redirecting to https://www.roc-lang.org
Luke Boswell (Nov 24 2023 at 20:48):I get the same with "echo http://www.roc-lang.org" | roc run examples/http-get.roc
Luke Boswell (Nov 24 2023 at 20:49)::face_palm:
Luke Boswell (Nov 24 2023 at 20:49):Thank you @Brendan Hansknecht
Luke Boswell (Nov 24 2023 at 20:51):I hadn't paid enough attention to the http vs https too. Also, there was a bug in the way I was using Dir.list.
Luke Boswell (Jan 16 2024 at 03:19):I found this https://sans-io.readthedocs.io/ and thought it may be a good reference for future implementations in pure Roc.
Luke Boswell (Jan 19 2024 at 00:29):There is an issue in basic-webserver CI I haven't seen before -- it should be totally unrelated to the changes in that PR. The surgical linker is unhappy with __umodti3. I've had a quick look and haven't resolved yet, posting here in case anyone else is able to look at this further. I'll circle back later, but want to progress some other things rn.
thread 'main' panicked at 'Undefined Symbol in relocation, (+4ef2, Relocation { kind: PltRelative, encoding: Generic, size: +20, target: Symbol(SymbolIndex(+88)), addend: +fffffffffffffffc, implicit_addend: false }): Ok(Symbol { name: "__umodti3", address: +0, size: +0, kind: Unknown, section: Undefined, scope: Unknown, weak: false, flags: Elf { st_info: +10, st_other: +0 } })', crates/linker/src/elf.rs:1486:25
I cannot reproduce the failures in CI for https://github.com/roc-lang/roc/pull/6415
Luke Boswell (Jan 24 2024 at 03:16):I've tried all kinds of different things, am tempted to try re-run CI and maybe that will resolve things? otherwise I'm out of ideas
Notification Bot (Feb 18 2024 at 22:07):27 messages were moved from this topic to #ideas > package shorthands when compiling interface modules by Richard Feldman.
Trevor Settles (Mar 01 2024 at 05:08):I've been looking at fixing a bug regarding aliasing option record fields. The core of this seems to be a parsing error. I've read through the parser file, but still not sure how to modify the parser (and any implications after that). Are there any other places I can read to get some more context on how to implement this fix?
Brendan Hansknecht (Mar 01 2024 at 06:21):I am not very educated on the parser, but the root of the issue is here: https://github.com/roc-lang/roc/blob/9bf57d63370f69093c5ce2660d39cafe9a424aa7/crates/compiler/parse/src/pattern.rs#L494-L500
Brendan Hansknecht (Mar 01 2024 at 06:22):You can see that it is select either of the two instead of optionally accepting : and then optionally accepting ?
Brendan Hansknecht (Mar 01 2024 at 06:28):If I understand correctly, which id definitely might not, I think the changes would just be parser local. Cause you are just changing the variable name of the parser output when renaming and optional
Luke Boswell (Jul 04 2024 at 04:44):Checkout the :cool: diagram I made for my basic-cli build script :sunglasses:
https://github.com/roc-lang/basic-cli/tree/refactor-host?tab=readme-ov-file#building-the-platform
Sam Mohr (Jul 04 2024 at 05:10):Luke Boswell said:
Checkout the :cool: diagram I made for my basic-cli build script :sunglasses:
https://github.com/roc-lang/basic-cli/tree/refactor-host?tab=readme-ov-file#building-the-platform
What did you make it with?
Luke Boswell (Jul 04 2024 at 05:11):PowerPoint
Sam Mohr (Jul 04 2024 at 05:11):Classic
Trevor Settles (Jul 04 2024 at 16:49):Quite helpful! That looks familiar. Was tat from one your your recent meetup presentations?
Luke Boswell (Jul 04 2024 at 23:15):No, I just put it together yesterday for Anton. He wanted something for the new basic-cli. I've got a PR that should hopefully land soon which refactors the rust code out into crates from the roc platform code. So to build the platform we use rust's cargo toolchain. I added a build script using (ironically a release of) basic-cli to drive all the different steps.
This is in preparation for removing the platform rebuilding from the roc cli. Platforms should be responsible for building the binaries for their host using the native toolchains, i.e. zig, cargo, etc. Roc shouldn't need to have dependencies on any of this. Roc should only need to understand how to link the host binaries using one of the linkers (legacy, additive or surgical).
Luke Boswell (Jul 05 2024 at 00:04):FYI -- I've got family staying with me this weekend (including 4x under the age of 5) so I don't expect I'll get much time to dig into to roc things. :beach_umbrella:
Richard Feldman (Jul 05 2024 at 00:07):nice, enjoy the family time! :smiley:
Luke Boswell (Jul 09 2024 at 03:30):Git noob question -- can anyone tell me why this PR has a bunch of unrelated commits in the history in GH? https://github.com/roc-lang/roc/pull/6859
Luke Boswell (Jul 09 2024 at 03:39):I suspect it is because I merged in remote/main. But those other commits are from previous PR's that have been merged already
Brendan Hansknecht (Jul 09 2024 at 03:46):This is why I hate merge and always rebase if possible
Luke Boswell (Jul 09 2024 at 03:47):I just did something super ugly, and rebased then squished
Luke Boswell (Jul 09 2024 at 03:47):Seems to be happy now
Luke Boswell (Aug 06 2024 at 23:04):How do we feel about using resources from a CDN for examples?
I was thinking of adding a small text editor example to basic-webserver using htmx and quilljs, with the sqlite backend.
Sam Mohr (Aug 06 2024 at 23:05):The examples should be reflective of how we think people would write real-life Roc code, just smaller. If you think it's better for someone to depend on a CDN instead of including the files in the Roc binary, then that works for me.
Sam Mohr (Aug 06 2024 at 23:06):It seems like that would be useful if they want to keep a smaller binary size.
Luke Boswell (Aug 06 2024 at 23:07):The other place this kind of example could live is in roc-lang/examples. It's not necessarily specific to basic-webserver in that it brings in other resources and is somewhat opinionated about how to do things (htmx, quill etc), so just demonstrates one way to do things.
Luke Boswell (Aug 06 2024 at 23:08):If I'm getting super excited I might even pull in tailwindcss from a CDN to make it look ok
Luke Boswell (Aug 06 2024 at 23:13):Or I guess I could just make it a blog post. I'm not sure how we'd make an expect test for this in CI -- and it's more stuff to maintain.
Richard Feldman (Aug 06 2024 at 23:53):can we just host them on GH pages in one of our repos or something?
Richard Feldman (Aug 06 2024 at 23:53):so it's a CDN but it's a CDN we know isn't going to 404 without our knowing about it :big_smile:
Luke Boswell (Aug 06 2024 at 23:56):I could add them to the static files hosted on the roc website.
Luke Boswell (Aug 06 2024 at 23:58):If we do that, it would make more sense for this kind of example to live in roc-lang/examples
Luke Boswell (Aug 06 2024 at 23:59):I just don't know if we want an example like this and have the additional burden of maintaining it.
I could just make a blog post, and then we link it under "external" examples.
Luke Boswell (Aug 06 2024 at 23:59):How do we draw that line?
Richard Feldman (Aug 07 2024 at 00:00):external seems fine for now I guess, as long as we're using a CDN that seems likely to be up for a long time
Anton (Aug 07 2024 at 10:19):small text editor example to basic-webserver using htmx and quilljs, with the sqlite backend.
This seems quite niche, I would put it in its own repo and link to it on roc-awesome
Luke Boswell (Aug 07 2024 at 10:23):Turned out to be really simple, and quite small. So I just shared in a gist in show and tell.
Oskar Hahn (Aug 07 2024 at 12:11):In Germany and Austria, we had programs, that people, that used Google fonds from the Google servers got sued for privacy reasons. The cases came to a good end. But it is still not decided, if it is legal in Europe to use Google fonts or for the same reason a CDN, when the data is processed outside of Europe.
I had cases in my circle of friends, where they got an "Abmahnung". (I have no idea how to translate this. This is a really problematic legal construct we have here.) I am absolutely sure, that a high Court will allow CDNs, but I don't want to be the person, that has to go to court for that. So I removed all CDNs from all my pages. I also know from companies, where they had to remove them.
So if it's possible, I would always advise people in Germany not to use a CDN and ship the files by their own service.
Anton (Aug 07 2024 at 12:14):"Abmahnung"
We have a Dutch word for that as well, perhaps this is similar to a "Cease and Desist"?
Oskar Hahn (Aug 07 2024 at 13:18):Maybe. An "Abmahnung" is a letter from a lawyer, which is so friendly to inform you, that you are doing something wrong. You should sign a declaration, that you will not do this again in the future. And you should also pay the bill of the lawyer. This may not be a big problem for companies, but it is for people and small charity organizations. A lot of them are doing what the laws say and are paying the bill. So there are lawyers that have built their business model on this system. We even have a word for that "Abmahnindustrie" maybe ChatGPT can explain it better
Kiryl Dziamura (Aug 11 2024 at 20:32):Speaking of CDNs
https://httptoolkit.com/blog/public-cdn-risks/
Luke Boswell (Aug 27 2024 at 10:44):Have we seen this before on linux x86? Just doing a fresh install of my server and building from source
= note: /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lz: No such file or directory
/usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lzstd: No such file or directory
collect2: error: ld returned 1 exit status
(deleted)
Luke Boswell (Aug 27 2024 at 10:51):@Anton
$ sudo apt install libz-dev libzstd-dev
Seems to have worked ok and given me the correct dependencies... is this worth adding to the getting started guide for linux?
Anton (Aug 27 2024 at 11:39):The getting started page is targeted towards Roc users using the nightly releases, I would add it to BUILDING_FROM_SOURCE.md
Luke Boswell (Sep 29 2024 at 02:29):Not really something to open a new thread about, but I thought I would share that I spent some time today updating my https://github.com/lukewilliamboswell/roc-htmx-tailwindcss-demo/tree/main demo -- it's now working again.
I encountered a number of compiler bugs along the way which made the process challenging.
One example is that I've stripped out the Session management as that was giving me grief and responsible for an error in alias analysis bug somewhere.
Also, this bug currently prevents Isaac's RTL from finishing which needs to be manually worked around.
I don't have any specific issue here to resolve or anything, but more a general observation that the experience wasn't great with our current state.
Luke Boswell (Sep 29 2024 at 02:30):I like coming back to this demo and using it to help find bugs and test changes.
Richard Feldman (Sep 29 2024 at 02:35):relatedly, I have a mostly working (with some gaps; it's not all the way there yet) implementation of Ayaz's standalone monomorphization-of-types pass, which is part 1 of the new lambda sets overhaul
gives a pretty amusing overview of the magnitude of difference between proof-of-concept OCaml and production Rust implementation :big_smile:
(most of the difference is just in the proof-of-concept type system being intentionally way simpler)
Richard Feldman (Sep 29 2024 at 02:36):also I'm trying out a new "never panic" strategy for dealing with errors: everything takes a problems: &mut Vec<Problem> and if something happens that's definitely a compiler bug, we just push into there and continue as best we can
Richard Feldman (Sep 29 2024 at 02:37):if all the passes end up doing that strategy, then we won't have any compiler panics, and even if there are bugs, you'll still get some partial (and hopefully helpful enough to unblock you) errors because we won't have panicked prior to the reporting step
Luke Boswell (Sep 29 2024 at 02:38):Will also make tracking them down and fixing much easier I imagine
Richard Feldman (Sep 29 2024 at 02:38):maybe haha...right now they aren't including much context, but in the future we could throw a backtrace in there or something
Richard Feldman (Sep 29 2024 at 02:38):mainly I'm just trying to make it so they don't panic, but do record where the problem is so we have some way of handling it better down the line
Luke Boswell (Sep 29 2024 at 02:39):I guess I'm thinking we wont be throwing away the previous problems we've collected which may be useful for the user to fix also
Nathan Kramer (Sep 29 2024 at 02:41):Luke Boswell said:
Not really something to open a new thread about, but I thought I would share that I spent some time today updating my https://github.com/lukewilliamboswell/roc-htmx-tailwindcss-demo/tree/main demo -- it's now working again.
It's a cool demo, I've been trying to find a way into Roc and I was taking a look at it last night, even though it was in a kind of broken state it was fun to play around with.
Luke Boswell (Sep 29 2024 at 02:43):Glad you enjoyed looking at it. There's a bunch of things in there now I'm looking at it I'd like to improve. When I last really touched it, was before module params... so I think there is plenty of space to explore with refactoring to use those better.
Luke Boswell (Sep 29 2024 at 02:43):I've also used it to find API designs for basic-webserver... it's good to have a larger app to help find which helpers or types we might want to include in the platform.
Nathan Kramer (Sep 29 2024 at 02:44):I'll have to look into module params. :note:
Question, is there a way to get the LSP to show autocomplete suggestions for package imports? or does that require changes to the LSP
Luke Boswell (Sep 29 2024 at 02:45):I'm not sure, I know we've discussed in zulip at some point. @Eli Dowling would probably know I think.
It may be something specific to an editor though. I'm not familiar with the LSP api myself
Luke Boswell (Sep 29 2024 at 02:55):Convert a type-checked canonical IR to a monomorphized IR by creating specializations of all functions, such that they are monomorphic in types
Just to check my understanding. After this we have no type variables, the functions are duplicated (specialized) for each possible combination of types that is used.
Ayaz Hafiz (Sep 29 2024 at 02:56):correct
Luke Boswell (Sep 29 2024 at 03:03):Just trying to follow this from a high level --- I can see we have the Subs types in crates/compiler/types/src/subs.rs, does the Mono IR (monomorphized IR) referred to here also use these same types?
Screenshot 2024-09-29 at 13.00.11.png
Luke Boswell (Sep 29 2024 at 03:05):I'm guessing mono is in crates/compiler/mono/src/ir.rs
Luke Boswell (Sep 29 2024 at 04:21):In https://github.com/roc-lang/roc/pull/7130 snobee asks for clarification
I'm making some assumptions here that I wanted to confirm:
1. All definitions begin at the start of a line
2. The left side of a type annotation is the exact same as the left side of a definition
This sounds correct to me. Just wanted to ask here too.
Ayaz Hafiz (Sep 29 2024 at 05:20):I believe that's correct
Ayaz Hafiz (Sep 29 2024 at 05:20):Luke Boswell said:
Just trying to follow this from a high level --- I can see we have the Subs types in
crates/compiler/types/src/subs.rs, does the Mono IR (monomorphized IR) referred to here also use these same types?
No, the type representation is different between mono and the earlier stages
Eli Dowling (Sep 29 2024 at 05:21):Luke Boswell said:
I'm not sure, I know we've discussed in zulip at some point. Eli Dowling would probably know I think.
It may be something specific to an editor though. I'm not familiar with the LSP api myself
That does indeed require changes to the lsp. It's been a while since I looked at it, but from my memory the main issue was that before module Params and the changes to roc project structure that came with it, there wasn't a good way by default to find which file was the "root/module entry" of a project which made it mostly impossible to resolve what packages should be available in a particular file.
But I believe that should be sorted now, so it's definitely something that could be implemented!
There is kind of a uniform path for all the data to get into the lang-server from the compiler, and one section where we look for all the possible completions in the current scope.
Again, just a guess, but adding it would be a matter of:
If you wanted to take a look, my suggestion is follow how we get in file completion vs imported completions.
The main process when doing the actual completion is:
Figure out we are inside a package import using the ast (similar to how we find what completion are available at the current scope.
Perform a lookup that's similar to the current imported completions, but instead search all packages instead of ones we've already imported.
@Nathan Kramer if you wanted to take a crack at it, I'd be very happy to advise. I've been meaning to write some better docs for the lsp code anyway :)
Nathan Kramer (Sep 29 2024 at 06:17):Eli Dowling said:
@Nathan Kramer if you wanted to take a crack at it, I'd be very happy to advise. I've been meaning to write some better docs for the lsp code anyway :)
I think it's a bit outside the scope of my competence... I don't know rust :laughing:
Appreciate you taking the time to write out these thoughts, maybe I can work my way up to something like that!
Eli Dowling (Sep 29 2024 at 06:20):Hahah, I see. Yeah, learning rust is certainly a bit of a hurdle to get over. Obviously I misunderstood :sweat_smile:
Luke Boswell (Oct 18 2024 at 01:27):I go to clean up 1 thing... and end up cleaning up 5 others... and I still haven't yet got back to the thing I started with. :sweat_smile:
I've implemented a few fixes for basic-webserver... and then to test it I thought I'd use the htmx example, and next thing I know I'm updating roc-ansi and random other things.
Sam Mohr (Oct 18 2024 at 02:09):It takes some discipline to not clean up 40 things at once, but it's not like any of us are complaining when you do it!
Luke Boswell (Oct 18 2024 at 02:12):@Brendan Hansknecht -- I'm made that change to basic-webserver using a tag union for the method. I'm getting a segfault though.
I'm thinking I should we might be able to make some unit tests to be sure it's working correctly, but also help isolate the bug. I'm going to try that.
Luke Boswell (Oct 18 2024 at 02:13):Here's the glue module I've got so far https://gist.github.com/lukewilliamboswell/e13968df1b305288555cbdadf84a9078
Luke Boswell (Oct 18 2024 at 02:16):Lol, immediately after I wrote this, I think I realised a way we could dramatically simplify the glue. Move the RocStr value up into the RequestToAndFromHost struct. It'll be empty most of the time but that ok.
Is there some way we can have an Option<xxx> in a Roc record so we're not allocating an empty string?
Brendan Hansknecht (Oct 18 2024 at 02:17):Empty strings don't allocate
Brendan Hansknecht (Oct 18 2024 at 02:17):So should be fine to just leave the string in
Luke Boswell (Oct 18 2024 at 02:18):Hmm. the problem though with this plan, is that then we introduce a deep copy for every request&response pair becuase now the platform will translate between the host version and what the app sees
Luke Boswell (Oct 18 2024 at 02:19):I think we might be doing that everytime anyway
Luke Boswell (Oct 18 2024 at 02:44):Yeah, I'm ditching this plan. It's just a bit too fragile and I want to move on.
Luke Boswell (Nov 22 2024 at 00:41):Is there anyone online who has an Intel mac and would be free to help me with something?
Luke Boswell (Nov 22 2024 at 00:42):Juts going back and forwards on this PR https://github.com/lukewilliamboswell/roc-platform-template-zig/pull/3 with CI, I think I've found a fix, but then every time I have to wait for Nix to do it's thing which takes a while.
Luke Boswell (Nov 22 2024 at 00:43):I could probably make my life easier if I just used a nightly... but where's the fun in that
Luke Boswell (Nov 22 2024 at 01:42):All good now... figured it out
Richard Feldman (Nov 22 2024 at 02:17):Luke Boswell said:
Is there anyone online who has an Intel mac and would be free to help me with something?
I think @Folkert de Vries has one if I remember right! :big_smile:
Richard Feldman (Nov 22 2024 at 02:18):oh nm glad it worked out!
Luke Boswell (Nov 22 2024 at 02:19):Yeah, I figured out how to make a nice GH matrix runner that tests the platform against most of the roc supported os/archs
Luke Boswell (Nov 22 2024 at 02:19):Between that and nix, I'm pretty happy with the coverage
Anthony Bullard (Nov 22 2024 at 12:08):Luke Boswell said:
Have we seen this before on linux x86? Just doing a fresh install of my server and building from source
= note: /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lz: No such file or directory /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lzstd: No such file or directory collect2: error: ld returned 1 exit status
I'm seeing a similar error on MacOS (with M1 Pro).
= note: ld: library not found for -lzstd
clang: error: linker command failed with exit code 1 (use -v to see invocation)
error: could not compile `roc_cli` (bin "roc") due to 1 previous error
I have zstd installed, and have even tried adding it's path to LDFLAGS, no dice. Anyone seen that before?
Anthony Bullard (Nov 22 2024 at 12:26):And I'm sorry, but I don't have the time to grok everything nix wants to do to my system, so I don't plan on installing it
Anton (Nov 22 2024 at 12:35):I have zstd installed, and have even tried adding it's path to LDFLAGS, no dice. Anyone seen that before?
Can you tell me the path where zstd is installed?
Anton (Nov 22 2024 at 12:36):but I don't have the time to grok everything nix wants to do to my system
I've never experienced any problems after installing nix but I understand the desire to know everything it does.
Anthony Bullard (Nov 22 2024 at 14:16):It's /opt/homebrew/opt/zstd which is a symlink to /opt/homebrew/Cellar/zstd/1.5.6
Anthony Bullard (Nov 22 2024 at 14:17):Anton said:
but I don't have the time to grok everything nix wants to do to my system
I've never experience any problems after installing nix but I understand the desire to know everything it does.
Yeah, just going through the installer it talks about adding users and groups and a top level directory and more. I just need to spend some time eventually to get it. I know some people I trust use it and love it.
Anthony Bullard (Nov 22 2024 at 14:21):I've tried
export LDFLAGS="-L/usr/local/opt/llvm/lib,-L/opt/homebrew/opt,-rpath,/usr/local/opt/llvm/lib"
export LDFLAGS="-L/usr/local/opt/llvm/lib,-L/opt/homebrew/Cellar/zstd/1.5.6,-rpath,/usr/local/opt/llvm/lib"
And then both of those with -Wl put in various places (which yes, means I don't understand ld very well even though I read the entire man page).
Anthony Bullard (Nov 22 2024 at 14:24):Also tried paring down LDFLAGS to just -L/opt/homebrew/opt OR -L/opt/homebrew/Cellar/zstd/1.5.6 and no dice
Anthony Bullard (Nov 22 2024 at 14:27):Running find / -name zstd I see that I have it also in a few Go packages, in some Cargo crates, and in Go itself
Anton (Nov 22 2024 at 14:32):I'll check and compare on my mac in a bit
Anthony Bullard (Nov 22 2024 at 14:33):Hey @Anton I figured it out. Did some searching on here and found another thread from @Luke Boswell about this. I needed:
export LIBRARY_PATH="/opt/homebrew/Cellar/zstd/1.5.6/lib"
Had nothing to do with LDFLAGS. Don't worry, that was only an hour of my life wasted :cry:
Anthony Bullard (Nov 22 2024 at 14:34):Maybe we should add this to the BUILDING_FROM_SOURCE.md file?
Anthony Bullard (Nov 22 2024 at 14:35):It was right in the github workflow for macos apple silicon.... :man_facepalming:
Richard Feldman (Nov 22 2024 at 14:40):I thought we removed the zstd dependency :thinking:
Richard Feldman (Nov 22 2024 at 14:40):maybe that was something else?
Anthony Bullard (Nov 22 2024 at 14:44):In good news, from my local repl:
» this_should_work = 1
1 : Num *
» holy_hell = "This worked"
"This worked" : Str
» repl_is_slow = True
True : [True]
» bad_tag = Yuck_This_Is_God_Awful
── SYNTAX PROBLEM ──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────
Underscores are not allowed in tag or opaque ref names:
10│ bad_tag = Yuck_This_Is_God_Awful
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I recommend using PascalCase. It's the standard style in Roc code!
» bad_ref = @Yuck_This_Is_God_Awful
── SYNTAX PROBLEM ──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────
Underscores are not allowed in tag or opaque ref names:
12│ bad_ref = @Yuck_This_Is_God_Awful
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I recommend using PascalCase. It's the standard style in Roc code!
And
» how_about___this_kind_thing = 42
── NAMING PROBLEM ──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────
I am trying to parse an identifier here:
14│ how_about___this_kind_thing = 42
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
While snake case is allowed here, only a single consecutive underscore
should be used.
I thought we removed the zstd dependency :thinking:
I think it was removed but we had to put it back
Anthony Bullard (Nov 22 2024 at 14:46):While waiting for some substantive review of my PR, I'm going to play with updating an example to use snake_case and build it
Anthony Bullard (Nov 22 2024 at 14:53):Sweet, after changing all references of fizzBuzz to fizz_buzz in examples/FizzBuzz:
…/roc-examples/examples/FizzBuzz main ! 08:51
❯ ../../../roc/target/debug/roc build
Downloading https://github.com/roc-lang/basic-cli/releases/download/0.16.0/O00IPk-Krg_diNS2dVWlI0ZQP794Vctxzv0ha96mK0E.tar.br
into /Users/anthonybullard/.cache/roc/packages
[8.9 / 8.9 MB]
0 errors and 0 warnings found in 10613 ms
while successfully building:
main
…/roc-examples/examples/FizzBuzz main ! 08:52
❯ ./main
1,2,Fizz,4,Buzz,Fizz,7,8,Fizz,Buzz,11,Fizz,13,14,FizzBuzz,16,17,Fizz,19,Buzz,Fizz,22,23,Fizz,Buzz,26,Fizz,28,29,FizzBuzz,31,32,Fizz,34,Buzz,Fizz,37,38,Fizz,Buzz,41,Fizz,43,44,FizzBuzz,46,47,Fizz,49,Buzz,Fizz,52,53,Fizz,Buzz,56,Fizz,58,59,FizzBuzz,61,62,Fizz,64,Buzz,Fizz,67,68,Fizz,Buzz,71,Fizz,73,74,FizzBuzz,76,77,Fizz,79,Buzz,Fizz,82,83,Fizz,Buzz,86,Fizz,88,89,FizzBuzz,91,92,Fizz,94,Buzz,Fizz,97,98,Fizz,Buzz
Anton said:
I thought we removed the zstd dependency :thinking:
I think it was removed but we had to put it back
ah I see - llvm needs it
so I guess once we're building our own llvm from source, we can drop the dependency?
Anton (Nov 22 2024 at 16:33):most likely
Anthony Bullard (Nov 22 2024 at 16:44):This hasn't gone as swimmingly since. It seems that there is a problem with the basic-cli platform latest where the Arg module is still using Str.split and that is not available in the latest version of the compiler
Anton (Nov 22 2024 at 16:47):Just linking to my comments here: https://roc.zulipchat.com/#narrow/channel/302903-platform-development/topic/Platform.20.2F.20Language.20version.20compatibility/near/483949925
jan kili (Nov 22 2024 at 20:43):My Roc journey this month:
Updating the tutorial is really helping me understand the scope of recent changes :smile:
Brendan Hansknecht (Nov 22 2024 at 20:50):I'm sorry for the rabbit hole :rabbit: :hole:
jan kili (Nov 22 2024 at 20:52):I'm stomping through the tall grass before the schoolbus arrives next week!
Brendan Hansknecht (Nov 22 2024 at 20:52):How is December so soon?
Brendan Hansknecht (Dec 24 2024 at 22:09):Basic CLI plans to support sqlite eventually, right?
Just thinking about the bundle of sqlite improvements that got reverted from basic webserver.
I might try to add them as a standalone crate and module in basic CLI (like @Luke Boswell has been doing for other shared effects). Then I would work to add it back into basic webserver.
Luke Boswell (Dec 24 2024 at 22:19):Sounds great :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes:
Georges Boris (Dec 25 2024 at 20:47):What is the current reasoning about things like sqlite(shared libs) and platforms? As they make sense to be used across different platforms and it would be great if there was one great API for it instead of "learn the API for the same thing for each platform".
I've not followed much of the conversation for the last several months (due to becoming a dad! :tada: ) - so I wonder if the general conclusion was that platforms benefit from being batteries included instead of composing shared effectful libs.
Brendan Hansknecht (Dec 25 2024 at 21:29):So sqlite is always special. If you want it, you must embed it in the platform. There is no implementing sqlite in roc. With many other things, like any other database, you can make a roc library built over tcp.
Brendan Hansknecht (Dec 25 2024 at 21:29):Anyway, with basic cli and basic webserver, we are starting to do basic rust crate sharing
Brendan Hansknecht (Dec 25 2024 at 21:30):So many effects are implemented in rust crates shared between the two platforms.
Brendan Hansknecht (Dec 25 2024 at 21:30):Then a thin duplicate roc shell
Anthony Bullard (Dec 25 2024 at 22:33):We could write a library for sqld/libsql and use the http protocol, but as far as “platform level capability” composition I hope we come up with something better than just sharing implementations in the long run. I’d like to have a singular Roc interface to many of these that also could be shared (and maybe built upon by plain Roc packages)
Brendan Hansknecht (Dec 25 2024 at 23:26):I think the correct way to use sqlite is to embedded it and skip any protocols. This means the primitives must be in the platform.
Brendan Hansknecht (Dec 25 2024 at 23:27):They can still be shared and libraries can still build on top of them, but the primitives would be required in each platform that wants to support sqlite
Brendan Hansknecht (Dec 25 2024 at 23:27):The only other reasonable alternative is generic ffi (which roc could support, but is a much more complex topic)
Brendan Hansknecht (Dec 25 2024 at 23:31):Someone could also make something to use the http protocol for sqlite, but, at least for me, that defeats essentially the entire point of using sqlite.
Anthony Bullard (Dec 26 2024 at 02:37):Turso would disagree :wink:. They also have a binary protocol as well. You still have an extremely fast battle-tested database that is file based (and libsql has a bunch of improvements over mainline SQLite)
But I don’t want to argue about SQLite in specific. I worry that having singular monolithic platforms instead of a runtime of effects that can be composed will, at scale, cause issues with adoption and many many speed bumps to a lot of reasonable use cases
Richard Feldman (Dec 26 2024 at 03:06):SQLite is an outlier database because it's the only one that's normally bundled as a dylib
Richard Feldman (Dec 26 2024 at 03:07):Postgres, MySQL, etc operate over a socket by default and so there's no problem making platform-agnostic pure-Roc packages to talk to them, such as roc-pg
Richard Feldman (Dec 26 2024 at 03:08):that's why these conversations always come up in the context of SQLite specifically: it's the only one that makes this tricky :big_smile:
Brendan Hansknecht (Dec 26 2024 at 03:11):Yeah, I think SQlite is specifically a bad example
Brendan Hansknecht (Dec 26 2024 at 03:11):There are lots of other tools and effects to worry about.
Brendan Hansknecht (Dec 26 2024 at 03:12):That said, I think sharing via rust crates is totally reasonable
Jasper Woudenberg (Dec 26 2024 at 10:33):Slightly tangential to this conversation, but tree-sitter might be a good example of a tool that's written in order to make it easy to use from different programming languages.
Most of it is written in C so any language with C-ffi can pull it in. I've been integrating tree-sittter into a Zig platform I'm working on, and also tree-sitter-highlight, a tool bundled with tree-sitter, written in Rust, with hooks for calling it from C.
Another thought is that it might also be interesting to watch how different platforms integrate sqlite for a while before we start investing in tooling to make it easier. For my Zig platform I needed a library for generating HTML. Hannes wrote one that I could have used, roc-html, but I realized that for my platform an ideal Html type would internally be represented like this:
Xml : List
[
FromSource { start: U32, end: U32 },
RocGenerated (List U8),
]
I.e., a list of slices, some copied from a source file, others generated using functions like Html.div. This is super specific to my platform, so no generic HTML library will define the HTML type like this. There might still be a way to do code sharing here, possibly a HTLM library might define all the helper functions for constructing different node types, but require you to pass in a custom internal XML type and node function.
I'm curious if we'll see similar situations with regards to sqlite, or tree-sitter, or other libraries designed for performance and integration via C-ffi. Platform authors might find that they can integrate the C dependency in a way specific to their platform that squeezes out some extra performance. It's hard to know upfront, given the platform concept is such a new paradigm.
Georges Boris (Dec 26 2024 at 15:50):I remember an idea discussed here in the likes of "libraries that require the platform to expose some types that implement abilities x y z".
That way a general html library might work with a generic Html msg type while multiple platforms might pick up that type and render it in different ways (e.g. clay is an immediate mode rendering library that was just released that supports rendering as html, canvas and opengl - maybe a game engine platform could use it to render some html content using the same API)
Brendan Hansknecht (Dec 26 2024 at 22:23):Yeah, that still can be the basis for a lot of sharing
Anton (Dec 27 2024 at 18:43):Can someone find the zulip discussion for ?? (providing defaults for results) as in #7089?
Sam Mohr (Dec 27 2024 at 18:45):It's a couple different discussions. I'm on it
Sam Mohr (Dec 27 2024 at 18:47):First mention by Richard: #ideas > `try-else` error context adding syntax @ 💬
Sam Mohr (Dec 27 2024 at 18:52):Okay, not that many discussions
Sam Mohr (Dec 27 2024 at 18:52):That's basically the last one that isn't just giving usage examples
Anthony Bullard (Dec 27 2024 at 18:53):@Anton did I ship something that's not meeting your expectations?
Anton (Dec 27 2024 at 19:10):No, that's not it, I was not immediately sold on the concept of the ?? operator and wanted to look at the discussion that lead to it.
Brendan Hansknecht (Dec 27 2024 at 19:17):Yeah, I think it was suggested and no one really had an issue with it. So it was added (or planned for addition)
Anthony Bullard (Dec 27 2024 at 19:21):@Anton If you aren't a fan, I'd like to hear why and have a discussion about it before I implement the ? binop
Anton (Dec 28 2024 at 11:45):I was doubting if Result.withDefault is used so often that there should be an operator for it. I now see that ?? will also be used for default value record fields, so it seems justified :+1:
Anthony Bullard (Dec 28 2024 at 11:46):I think Result.withDefault will be used a lot for things like getting data out of a list, set, or map.
Anthony Bullard (Dec 28 2024 at 11:47):Pretty much like an Option.withDefault if we had Options
Anthony Bullard (Dec 28 2024 at 11:47):That's how I found myself using it in AOC at least
Anton (Dec 28 2024 at 12:57):like getting data out of a list, set, or map.
Would using Result.withDefault in these cases not be a point of silent failure?
Anthony Bullard (Dec 28 2024 at 12:58):It all depends on the use case
Anthony Bullard (Dec 28 2024 at 12:59):But yes many times it would be.
Anthony Bullard (Dec 28 2024 at 12:59):I think the main cases will be for those "scripty" sort of workflows
Wizard ish (Dec 29 2024 at 18:14):Not 100% sure where this should go, so just asking it here:
How does one transfer a PGP key between computers?
Ayaz Hafiz (Dec 29 2024 at 18:26):you can use gpg --export-secret-key
Anton (Dec 30 2024 at 10:43):This what I use for two linux machines:
# on old pc:
gpg --list-keys --keyid-format SHORT | grep ^pub
gpg --export --armor [Your_Key_ID] > public.key
# on new pc
gpg --import public.key
I'm going to be hacking on the type checker for the next few hours. If anyone would like to join you're most welcome.
Luke Boswell (Feb 14 2025 at 23:05):I'm still at the "how does this thing work" phase of things... so it's pretty slow progress
Richard Feldman (Feb 14 2025 at 23:09):at the most basic level, I like to think of Subs as a "type database" (the name of that data structure could probably be better :sweat_smile:)
Richard Feldman (Feb 14 2025 at 23:10):Variable is like a TypeId - the key in the key/value store of the types database
Richard Feldman (Feb 14 2025 at 23:10):and then the value in that key/value store is either a specific type like "this is a function with these arguments and this return value..." or else a "symlink" to another TypeId - like "see this other thing for what my type is"
Richard Feldman (Feb 14 2025 at 23:12):a really critical performance aspect of our type unification algorithm is that you're allowed to "compact" chains of symlinks at any point in the process without there being any chance of that changing the answer at the end of type-checking
Richard Feldman (Feb 14 2025 at 23:12):in other words, if the type of A is "symlinked" to be whatever the type of B is, and B is "symlinked" to be whatever the type of C is, then we can compact that to have A be symlinked directly to C
Richard Feldman (Feb 14 2025 at 23:13):which means that later whenever we're looking up the final type of A (which can come up a lot during type inference, e.g. to check if something has a type mismatch with A), we don't have to go through B, we can go straight to C
Richard Feldman (Feb 14 2025 at 23:13):which means the symlink chains never get longer than 1 hop, instead of potentially growing to N hops - which could really get out of hand if it were allowed to happen :big_smile:
Richard Feldman (Feb 14 2025 at 23:15):get_content refers to "go get the actual type associated with this Variable" and get_content_without_compacting is the same thing except it takes a &Subs instead of &mut Subs and therefore won't (and can't, because it's not mut) compact any symlink chains it encounters
Luke Boswell (Feb 14 2025 at 23:22):By "symlinked" you're talking about substitutions?
Luke Boswell (Feb 14 2025 at 23:24):Yeah I've been trying to learn the theory basics and map that back to what we have in the rust impl. It's a challenge to unpick and see how it all works together. Just poking at the different data structures mostly and translating them mostly 1-1 to zig for now.
Richard Feldman (Feb 15 2025 at 00:03):Luke Boswell said:
By "symlinked" you're talking about substitutions?
yeah, I always thought of them as symlinks :big_smile:
Richard Feldman (Feb 15 2025 at 00:03):but that's why it's called Subs - short for "substitutions table"
jan kili (Feb 15 2025 at 06:31):Where do folks "join" for co-working or pairing or mobbing these days? All Zed? Sometimes Discord? I'm curious to try streaming some workdays, but I haven't felt motivated to set up OBS or perf check my hardware.
Sam Mohr (Feb 15 2025 at 06:33):Luke and I mainly do Google Meet, but sometimes Zed
Sam Mohr (Feb 15 2025 at 06:33):Discord is great, but lots of people don't really use it still
Luke Boswell (Feb 15 2025 at 06:36):I posted earlier when I was starting. I'm almost done for todays session. My plan is to let people know in here if I know I've got a few hours to hack on things.
Sam Mohr (Feb 15 2025 at 06:36):Oh, you're still going?
Sam Mohr (Feb 15 2025 at 06:37):Good to know
Kiryl Dziamura (Feb 15 2025 at 07:44):Ah, hopefully, I can join the next time. It's been a time since I last looked into roc’s guts
Cancai Cai (Feb 16 2025 at 06:54):Hello, I would like to ask if the rust part of roc is still being updated? I want to learn about compiled languages through roc, and I might want to start with the rust part, but I see that roc seems to have been rewritten with zig?
Luke Boswell (Feb 16 2025 at 06:57):We have recently started a rewrite in zig. The rust compiler is still there and operational... all the recent effort to add new features is going into the zig compiler.
What are you hoping to learn about? You can definitely read through the rust compiler code, though there is a lot there.
Cancai Cai (Feb 16 2025 at 07:02):OK, thank you very much for your quick answer. I am very interested in the world of compiled languages and I hope to learn some knowledge about compiled languages from roc. I will try to read roc's rust code and try to make some contributions.
Are we currently accepting contributions for the rust part, or would it be more appropriate to start with zig?
Luke Boswell (Feb 16 2025 at 07:05):I would point you to the https://www.roc-lang.org/community#ideas and say it's a good idea to discuss anything in here before you commit too much time on something you would like to merge.
I would suggest Zig is the best place, though there isn't much actually there to work with at the moment. We're trying to put the bare bones together and get a really simple compiler end to end -- which might take us a little while.
Sam Mohr (Feb 16 2025 at 22:08):I'll be jumping on either a Zed call or Google Meet in about an hour and a half to work on implementing the basic form of coordinate.zig if anyone would like to join!
Sam Mohr (Feb 16 2025 at 23:26):I'm in this call: https://meet.google.com/vse-gvzr-sqv
Sam Mohr (Feb 16 2025 at 23:33):Is there an existing #roc channel for Zed, or should I create a new one?
Brendan Hansknecht (Feb 16 2025 at 23:37):I thought we said one already existed, but not sure
Sam Mohr (Feb 17 2025 at 02:20):We jumped off for now, might jump back on later but not sure
Luke Boswell (Feb 17 2025 at 02:23):Yeah I'm just grabbing a bite to eat
Sam Mohr (Mar 11 2025 at 19:19):Heads up, if anyone is ever curious about any of the plans for how a part of the new Zig-based compiler will work, I'm happy to chat. Please feel free to ask questions here or in a direct message :smile:
Brendan Hansknecht (Mar 22 2025 at 03:38):For anyone interested, myself and a few other roc contributors will be meeting up at . Just an ad hoc update and general discussion. Will be super laid back. I guess we'll try jitsi for this one
Brendan Hansknecht (Mar 22 2025 at 17:30):Starting now for anyone interested :point_up:
jan kili (Mar 22 2025 at 18:27):Here are screenshots showing a pathological case of my error message UX pain, where I'm deleting one line of code:
Screenshot_20250322_122439.png
Screenshot_20250322_122512.png
Wizard ish (Apr 06 2025 at 20:30):btw know ive just been gone for the past little bit (got myself into a bit of a journey with Racket, but what's the status of the Zig rewrite so far (is the zig src folder readme state accurate, and why are theyre still issues for the rust version)?
Brendan Hansknecht (Apr 06 2025 at 20:41):I think we basically have a full tokenizer and parser, but later stages just have shims or limited work. I know progress has been made for canonicalization and unification.
Brendan Hansknecht (Apr 06 2025 at 20:42):We have done no work to clean up rust issues and we still log some rust bugs. Not that they are planned to be fixed. Just tracked.
Brendan Hansknecht (Apr 06 2025 at 20:42):Oh, we also have made a decent bit of progress for fuzzing, snapshotting, and testing, to give a more robust base
Brendan Hansknecht (Apr 06 2025 at 20:42):I think overall progress will ebb and flow in waves
Joshua Warner (Apr 06 2025 at 20:53):I've been trying to add some snapshoting (sexpr) support to canonicalize, but I've banging my head against a compiler error for a while. Would appreciate a second pair of eyes if one is available.
My current code is here, and on that line specifically I'm seeing the following error:
src/check/canonicalize/IR.zig:286:42: error: no field or member function named 'toSExpr' in 'collections.safe_list.SafeList(base.ModuleImport).Idx'
var elem_sexpr = elem.toSExpr(env, ir);
~~~~^~~~~~~~
src/collections/safe_list.zig:31:25: note: enum declared here
pub const Idx = enum(u32) { _ };
^~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Similar errors involving SafeList(base.ModuleImport).Idx also pop up when trying other variations of this loop.
AFAICT this code very explicitly is not doing anything involving ModuleImport's - so I'm very confused.
There are similar errors that pop up in some similar circumstances later in the file, clearly also mismatching in type arguments.
At this point I suspect there is a zig compiler bug of some sort, if nothing else in deciding which types to show to the user when rendering the error message.
Thoughts/tips?
Wizard ish (Apr 06 2025 at 21:35):ok i know the idea for "type functions as comptime" in Roc was too compicated, but i just had a thought. Extend the Racket "seperate compilation guarentee" to any sort of logic beyond pattern matching. That is, a "type function" (generic type) could only act as a simple, pure, lambda from one term (that is a type) to another
Brendan Hansknecht (Apr 06 2025 at 21:43):Probably worth spinning up a #ideas thread with more concrete details.
Brendan Hansknecht (Apr 06 2025 at 21:43):Joshua Warner said:
I've been trying to add some snapshoting (sexpr) support to canonicalize, but I've banging my head against a compiler error for a while. Would appreciate a second pair of eyes if one is available.
My current code is here, and on that line specifically I'm seeing the following error:
src/check/canonicalize/IR.zig:286:42: error: no field or member function named 'toSExpr' in 'collections.safe_list.SafeList(base.ModuleImport).Idx' var elem_sexpr = elem.toSExpr(env, ir); ~~~~^~~~~~~~ src/collections/safe_list.zig:31:25: note: enum declared here pub const Idx = enum(u32) { _ }; ^~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Similar errors involving
SafeList(base.ModuleImport).Idxalso pop up when trying other variations of this loop.AFAICT this code very explicitly is not doing anything involving ModuleImport's - so I'm very confused.
There are similar errors that pop up in some similar circumstances later in the file, clearly also mismatching in type arguments.
At this point I suspect there is a zig compiler bug of some sort, if nothing else in deciding which types to show to the user when rendering the error message.
Thoughts/tips?
Not immediately, but I probably can take a look tomorrow night or Tuesday.
Anthony Bullard (Apr 06 2025 at 22:09):I think you need to fetch the child expressions and call toSExpr on them @Joshua Warner
Anthony Bullard (Apr 06 2025 at 22:11): Joshua Warner (Apr 06 2025 at 22:22):Right, I was thinking roughly along those lines, but I haven't happened upon the right pattern to use with SafeMultiList. Applying this diff:
diff --git a/src/check/canonicalize/IR.zig b/src/check/canonicalize/IR.zig
index 3b4858fe9c..25db1cc804 100644
--- a/src/check/canonicalize/IR.zig
+++ b/src/check/canonicalize/IR.zig
@@ -283,7 +283,8 @@ pub const Expr = union(enum) {
appendTypeVarChild(&node, gpa, "elem_var", l.elem_var);
var elems_node = sexpr.Expr.init(gpa, "elems");
for (l.elems.items(.expr)) |elem| {
- var elem_sexpr = elem.toSExpr(env, ir);
+ const e = ir.exprs_at_regions.get(elem);
+ var elem_sexpr = e.toSExpr(env, ir);
elems_node.appendNodeChild(gpa, &elem_sexpr);
}
node.appendNodeChild(gpa, &elems_node);
Results in a very similar error:
src/check/canonicalize/IR.zig:286:55: error: expected type 'collections.safe_list.SafeMultiList(check.canonicalize.IR.When).Idx', found 'collections.safe_list.SafeList(base.ModuleImport).Idx'
const e = ir.exprs_at_regions.get(elem);
^~~~
Ok yeah, found the issue. Zig is indeed giving error messages that involve incorrect types vs what it's actually using internally.
Wizard ish (Apr 09 2025 at 13:29):Hey is there a place for open needed contributions for the zig rewrite so I don’t step on anyone’s toes by doing something they’re already doing?
Anton (Apr 09 2025 at 13:45):Feel free to take anything without an emoji from here. @Agus Zubiaga was really busy with work so perhaps you can try finishing https://github.com/roc-lang/roc/pull/7634 ?
Wizard ish (Apr 09 2025 at 14:56):Sure, so long as he dosent mind I’ll copy the pr and start work on it
Wizard ish (Apr 09 2025 at 19:17):i dont know how i would get by without git guis, ive started work on the pr
Wizard ish (Apr 09 2025 at 21:51):are certain of the values in https://github.com/roc-lang/roc/blob/main/src/base/module_work.zig not supposed to be generic with Work and instead specific with can.IR?
Anthony Bullard (Apr 09 2025 at 22:36):Should be generic if it’s in base
Wizard ish (Apr 09 2025 at 22:45):is it even used?
Wizard ish (Apr 09 2025 at 22:46):also theres an error in the good for it (unless im just missing something here)
src/base/module_work.zig:92:43: error: expected type 'mem.Allocator', found pointer
.work = Work.init(&can_irs.getWork(work_idx).env),
Zig won't compiler or test anything it doesn't have to
Brendan Hansknecht (Apr 09 2025 at 22:53):It will tree shake to remove code before compiling
Brendan Hansknecht (Apr 09 2025 at 22:54):So unused code (like that written during the build out process) can easily become stale
Wizard ish (Apr 09 2025 at 22:55):ok, yeah zig's compiler is too smart :)
Brendan Hansknecht (Apr 09 2025 at 23:00):Compiles faster, but means a lot of stuff is totally unchecked
Anthony Bullard (Apr 13 2025 at 15:50):Finally have my Mac Mini on Linux (Fedora 41 w/ Gnome), and it is ready for Roc development!
Anthony Bullard (Apr 13 2025 at 15:50):This is a machine that I'm much more likely to try out Nix on
Richard Feldman (Apr 13 2025 at 18:05):this was obviously unnecessary, but I thought it was fun: instead of looking up whether Zig's @max and @min are branchless (I assumed so, but wanted to double-check) I asked Claude to prove one way or the other by writing a small zig program, building it, disassembling the output, checking the assembly instructions, and then quoting relevant portions of the asm to me to prove whether they were branchless
Anthony Bullard (Apr 13 2025 at 18:07):And it explains how conditional select differs from a jump?
Anthony Bullard (Apr 13 2025 at 18:08):I mean a cmp then a jmp
Brendan Hansknecht (Apr 13 2025 at 18:10):Cool use, though still wouldn't truly prove anything. Zig could still be building the branches and llvm could just be removing them (not the case here, but difference between guarantees and happenstance).
Brendan Hansknecht (Apr 13 2025 at 18:10):Just thinking about the complex heuristics in compilers and what can accidentally be assumed
Brendan Hansknecht (Apr 13 2025 at 18:10):But really is just a brittle pattern
Richard Feldman (Apr 13 2025 at 18:17):oh sure, but the thing I care about is whether there's branching in the output asm
Richard Feldman (Apr 13 2025 at 18:17):so in that sense, it's testing exactly what I want it to test! :smiley:
Richard Feldman (Apr 13 2025 at 18:17):and then I asked it to do the same thing on a function I wrote, and it confirmed that it was not branchless (as I had suspected) - that is, in this case the ifs were not getting compiled to csels
Richard Feldman (Apr 13 2025 at 18:20):basically a quicker way to verify that than my usual standby of "copy/paste as much as I need to into godbolt.org and scan the assembly output myself"
Brendan Hansknecht (Apr 13 2025 at 19:42):That's fair
Brendan Hansknecht (Apr 13 2025 at 19:42):Just make sure it runs with optimizations
Anton (Apr 14 2025 at 08:47):Anthony Bullard said:
Finally have my Mac Mini on Linux (Fedora 41 w/ Gnome), and it is ready for Roc development!
This is a kind of setup that I have not tested before, let me know if you hit any issues! We do test aarch64 linux but macs can be special :big_smile:
Anthony Bullard (Apr 14 2025 at 09:50):Oh to be clear this is a 2018 Intel Mac Mini
Anthony Bullard (Apr 14 2025 at 09:52):And it runs like a dream! The only difficulty I had was figuring out how to get the WiFi card to work - just had to find the proprietary firmware.
Magdiel Amor (Apr 15 2025 at 14:02):I use a hp laptop that runs an Ubuntu 22.04 GNU-Linux OS...
I hope this works for Roc development? :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes:
Anton (Apr 15 2025 at 14:10):That should work, but feel free to ask if you hit any problems
jan kili (Apr 16 2025 at 18:23):@Magdiel Amor Roc is delightful on Debian 12 on my Framework laptop, and Ubuntu 22.04 is based on Debian 12, so you should have a relatively smooth developer experience!
Anthony Bullard (Apr 20 2025 at 13:40):Sorry for the slight change in plans, but I’m going to need to take a two week hiatus from Roc development work. My workload has went from busy to insane in the past two weeks and going to ludicrous through the first week of May.
I will try my best to be at the contributor meeting, but beyond that I’ll need to use my Roc time for work.
Richard Feldman (Apr 20 2025 at 13:58):no worries…I’m in a similar boat. Biggest launch in Zed’s history is like 3 weeks away (we have a hard deadline of launching before the RustWeek conference) and some of us are already making weekend PRs on it. :sweat_smile:
Fábio Beirão (Apr 22 2025 at 07:40):🤞🏻 please be the Windows version, please be the Windows version 🤞🏻:grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes:
jan kili (Apr 30 2025 at 21:25):Hey everyone, this week I started streaming myself working. :partying_face: Right now I'm resuming (and will continue this week during North American office hours) script writing for my upcoming Roc syntax tutorial videos, and next week I hope to resume developing my Roc/Rust-based music synthesizer. Join me any time! https://www.twitch.tv/kili_ilo
Anton (May 30 2025 at 14:18):We did not have a test for Tty.enable_raw_mode!({}) yet in basic-cli, so I made an example that uses it: snake in the terminal :snake:
screenshot_snake.png
Source code here
Richard Feldman (Jun 22 2025 at 18:54):My First Impressions of Gleam · mtlynch.io.jpeg.png
pretty wild how all of these except the last one are now things 0.1.0 will have...should be a much smoother learning curve for beginners! :smiley:
Richard Feldman (Jun 22 2025 at 18:54):from https://mtlynch.io/notes/gleam-first-impressions/
Richard Feldman (Jun 22 2025 at 18:55):I've thought about list accessors btw...would be pretty straightforward, just a[b] desugars to a.get(b)
Richard Feldman (Jun 22 2025 at 18:56):not sure it's worth having in the language, but the design would be pretty obvious given how a + b will desugar to a.plus(b) etc.
Richard Feldman (Jun 22 2025 at 19:12):My First Impressions of Gleam · mtlynch.io.jpeg.png
ha! this one too
Richard Feldman (Jun 22 2025 at 19:14):My First Impressions of Gleam · mtlynch.io.jpeg.png
and this :joy:
Luke Boswell (Jun 22 2025 at 20:41):Richard Feldman said:
I've thought about list accessors btw...would be pretty straightforward, just
a[b]desugars toa.get(b)
Worth a serious consideration. A lot of people probably would appreciate it.
Kilian Vounckx (Jun 22 2025 at 21:19):The one benefit I see to .get over accessors is that it is more obvious it could return a result. For some reason (probably just used to it), I expect brackets to not return a result, but a value or panic.
I could probably get used to the (arguably better) semantics of brackets also returning a result
Luke Boswell (Jun 22 2025 at 21:45):Also thinking about tuple accessors, t[0] is probably nicer than t.0
Jared Ramirez (Jun 22 2025 at 21:52):Going back to a convo about re-exporting pub types and when we used to need to put comments on all pub types: TIL that you can do:
pub usingnamespace @import("./types/types.zig");
To re-export all of a sub-modules types!
Richard Feldman (Jun 22 2025 at 22:17):Luke Boswell said:
Also thinking about tuple accessors,
t[0]is probably nicer thant.0
it's not the same bc you can put variables in there - e.g. tuple[x]
Richard Feldman (Jun 22 2025 at 22:19):a downside of brackets for familiarity is that although x = list[y] can work about the way you'd expect (give or take the Result), but list[x] = y wouldn't work at all for multiple reasons
Brendan Hansknecht (Jun 22 2025 at 22:22):Luke Boswell said:
Also thinking about tuple accessors,
t[0]is probably nicer thant.0
Hmmm....I think that has a problem of being a different signature. t.0 would be compile time known and guaranteed in bounds. t[0] would also allow for t[x] and might be out of bounds. That said, I think we should support that for homogeneous tuples (essentially just treat them as array types).
Brendan Hansknecht (Jun 22 2025 at 22:24):We could allow list_[x] = y to work though. Just require reassignment.
Luke Boswell (Jun 26 2025 at 00:20):For Records... I've been pulling together a number of snapshots to exercise different use cases. I think I should introduce those in a separate PR even though they aren't implemented yet.
I'd like someone (maybe @Anthony Bullard or @Richard Feldman ) to review and confirm I've got the syntax and describe behaviour correctly before working on "fixing" anything that isn't working in our current implementation.
Hopefully I'll have something to share soon.
Anthony Bullard (Jun 26 2025 at 00:22):sounds good!
Anthony Bullard (Jun 26 2025 at 00:22):i'm currently refactoring a bunch of stuff having to do with numbers in Can
Luke Boswell (Jun 26 2025 at 00:22):Are you working from main? Richard just merged his PR
Richard Feldman (Jun 26 2025 at 00:33):yeah @Anthony Bullard make sure to take a look at main - a bunch of canonical number changes just landed!
Anthony Bullard (Jun 26 2025 at 00:34):oh shoot! i had no idea you were working on that
Luke Boswell (Jun 26 2025 at 00:47):OK, any change you might be able to look at these snapshot examples https://github.com/roc-lang/roc/pull/7874
Anthony Bullard (Jun 26 2025 at 00:49):yes in a bit
Anthony Bullard (Jun 26 2025 at 00:50):my number changes might be able to be reused in a later stage but i doubt it
Anthony Bullard (Jun 26 2025 at 02:50):i approved but you have a lot of spelling mistakes
Anthony Bullard (Jun 26 2025 at 02:50):fields is uniformly spelled fileds
Luke Boswell (Jun 26 2025 at 02:57):This is what happens when your fingers don't obey your brain
Luke Boswell (Jun 26 2025 at 03:25):Should the Ident interner be de-duplicating strings? so if I "insert" two identical strings name and name I get the same Idx back?
Luke Boswell (Jun 26 2025 at 03:28):In Can there a quite a few places where we are comparing "strings", extracting their idents from the interner by idx then comparing bytes. I thought the idea was we intern them (paying the price once) and then we can use thier Idx's to compare very cheaply
Luke Boswell (Jun 26 2025 at 03:40):Update on this for anyone interested.
The problem is that each occurrence of an identifier gets its own
Ident.Idxvalue, even if it has the same text content. The interning system deduplicates the string storage, but still creates separateIdent.Idxvalues for each occurrence because they have different source locations.
So when we're doing scope lookups, we need to compare by text content (using
identsHaveSameText) rather than by exactIdent.Idxequality, because the same variable name used in different places in the code will have differentIdent.Idxvalues.
Brendan Hansknecht (Jun 26 2025 at 04:28):Note. We should still never need to compare strings
Brendan Hansknecht (Jun 26 2025 at 04:29):Once you know the offset into the underlying byte storage you know if they match or not
Brendan Hansknecht (Jun 26 2025 at 04:29):So it should just be a pointer/offset comparison and not a full string comparison
Luke Boswell (Jun 26 2025 at 04:30):Yeah the helper is called identsHaveSameText and it does that for us.
Anthony Bullard (Jun 26 2025 at 11:36):i think Martin Odersky has been following you @Richard Feldman
image_3B1C51AF-9251-49A2-AD1C-FE077EFB95C1_1750937783.png
Anton (Jul 12 2025 at 10:42):A very quick way to get a backtrace when you hit a segfault:
$ gdb --batch --ex run --ex bt --args ./zig-out/bin/roc check myApp.roc
What does --batch do there?
Anton (Jul 12 2025 at 16:14):It's for providing commands in a one liner; so you don't have to do run and bt separately in the gdb console.
Brendan Hansknecht (Jul 12 2025 at 16:16):Ah, you need batch to use ex?
Anton (Jul 12 2025 at 16:41):No I was wrong, you can do it with just --ex if you want but then you're still in interactive mode (like paging for the backtrace). Batch is non-interactive, just regular output.
Last updated: Jul 26 2025 at 12:14 UTC